Ep#5 Da Vinci's Notebook

[Gabrielle]

You can talk about this episode here.

[potc166]

it' a very good sicro episode....love it

[parazesis]

My brother keeps serring and going on about how "he bilt a gattilen gun"
I love this episode but the one chick, Murie, Has isues. I also like the part where Ramon is going on and on about his food. "actualy it's goose and it's marinated in vineger in honny, then rosted on a spit. It's crispy yet suculent.... you want some?" hehe

[vigilanti]

this was the last episode i saw. i kept missing it then long after the series was over i finally managed to catch it on youtube. I wish there had been more siroc-centric episodes, this one was terrific.

[Jaded]

This is absolutely the shippiest Jacqueline/Siroc episode. Yes? =D

[sue]

In the opening scene, the musketeers and Mireille are discussing D’Artagnan’s “transfer”, to Brittany. And Jacques says: “I thought you hated the North.” There are two things wrong with this. First, Brittany is to the West of Paris…only a tiny bit north, but almost due West. And second, since when does any soldier get a say in where he is transferred to? If one is transferred, one GOES, no questions. Doesn’t matter if you “hate the North”.

I LOVE the part of the fight where D’Artagnan tries to keep the washer-woman from falling into the tub, by holding onto the laces of her bodice, and then Bernard slices right through them. She splashes into the dirty water anyway. LOL! Note: This isn’t the only time that D’Artagnan wins a sword fight, the final blow being helped by a lady, but it is truly a well-played scene…the way he sees her getting ready to throw the dirty laundry, maneuvers Bernard around, then ducks. Really well done! But it should also be noted, especially with the discussion of the previous episode, that, faced with a challenge, D’Artagnan, who “is always doing these things,” [getting into fights]seems awfully reluctant to get into it with Bernard, his favorite adversary, as we see progress through the season.

Love Louis’ absolute inability to play that ONE note, until he finally declares that the composer should “Have that note removed!”

In Mazarin’s office, there is a map of Europe. Curiously, it shows all of Iberia as Spain (accurate to the 17th Century) and Italy as all one country (Italy was a collection of city states – the Papal States, Venice, Naples, etc. and should show political borders).

Siroc: “As everybody knows, Da Vinci died in Paris.”

Ramón: “I didn’t know it.”

Ramón’s subsequent line about how the goose is prepared is classic! He really knows his food! He shows his talents again, when Mireille shows up with the picnic lunch for Jacques, identifying, by smell, the ingredients of the basket.

In the Stables…D’Artagnan and Jacqueline’s dialogue about being friends, has already been discussed, but the final close up is so cute! He’s so torn between deciding whether he should be injured by her rejection and a sense of “What a woman!” that she would dare to reject him…he’s so turned on by the chase!

Jacques’ reactions to Mireille, her complete discomfiture throughout, it so funny! My favorites parts are where they are eating, and Mireille makes Jacques swallow a bite, stroking her throat, and the part, after D’Artagnan and Ramón release them from being tied to the tree, and Mireille says: “I may never see you again…” Jacques responds: “Well, so long!” and beats it. Mireille then turns to her father: “Now, there goes a REAL man!” Then, of course, at the end of the episode, when Mireille begins listing all the things about Jacques that fell short of her expectations. “Women!” One has to chuckle at the fact that most of them point to her femininity, yet Mireille still doesn’t see the obvious!

While tied to the tree, D’Artagnan’s desire to torture Jacques just a little bit is amusing…the look on his face as he pulls Ramón back, so they can watch just a moment longer. Then, he IS the one who takes out the guard, and releases them.

I wonder whether someone like D’Artagnan would have had any idea what foxglove is or what it can do, much less that it “stops the heart”. I don’t believe even a medical person would have known HOW the poison works.

The drape that Siroc fashioned to hide his project is pure genius!

“I love a good rack….
Of lamb, to taste.”

[thedaringhattrick]

This was my favourite YB episode. The characters are all in their element here. I really appreciated the insight into Siroc's character. He's not a cookie-cutter good-guy like the others; he's very much a scientist first.

Jacqueline and d'Artagnan's interaction in this episode was priceless! I love their back and forth banter.

I agree with Sue; the fight scenes in this episode were well-choreographed.

[RK9]

Yes, Jaded! This is the bestest Siroc/Jacqueline-suggestive episode ever! That's why it's one of my favorites. That, and I love everything about it. The characterization, the plot, the fun, fun, FUN! And the S/J overtones to make a shipper like me sigh and go squee...

*makes note to go watch it again before she says any more*

[sue]

Wow! I just don't even SEE it! I always thought the J/S thing was completely imaginary.

Wait. Still do. I don't see ANYTHING that suggests that Jacqueline and Siroc would wind up together, or have any sort of attraction. The only thing I see here, is two friends planning to go to church together (and Siroc seems AWFULLY preoccupied when Jacques comes to pick him up...seems like they go often, but there's nothing there to suggest more than two friends who happen to be devout), and Jacques is the first to reach Siroc when he's down after the firing of the weapon...but only because she was the one closest to him at that time...not because there was anything else there. I just don't see what you guys are seeing.

[RK9]

I watched the ep on youtube, so I couldn't rewatch the extra bits that I have on tape... but I remember them, thankfully.

Okay. *disinfects hands and starts dissecting*

We begin with a lovely d'Artagnan/Jacqueline friendship scene, with the usual lovely humor and banter, and then the scene at the wash-house where Jacqueline tries (and fails) to "put more man in her manhood" with Ramon and Siroc (I seriously looked at the screen and went, "R-ight..."). And then d'Art recognizes Mireille (sp?), and his reaction is to turn away and go "uh-oh".

Hello, d'Art love, if you don't want someone to see you, do you think that merely turning around would be enough? At least hide behind that tall Spaniard or something, would you? And keep your voice down - if the girl is as besotted as you say, don't you think she'd know your voice anywhere?

My take on d'Art, who apparently expresses reluctance to duel Bernard, despite Jacqueline's assertion in the previous episode that he "always does these things, it drives me crazy" - it isn't a reluctance to duel, see, but a reluctance to have to defend the girl, who already fancies them as "practically engaged", despite having only shared a cup of coffee. See, he would prefer to not have to defend her honor and encourage her delusions further, but as a musketeer and a gentleman, he has to, despite his personal reluctance to. As Ramon reminds him, "The etiquette, is clear." And though he does things that drives her crazy, I believe that even Jacqueline would be the first to admit that d'Artagnan is still a gentleman, and a man of honor who wouldn't allow a young woman to be treated as Bernard was treating her - it's a characterization that I absolutely love about our legend's son. No matter how stubborn and frustrating he can be beneath the facade, so to speak, he is actually a very good man, a reliable and loyal friend who can be counted on when the going gets tough. That's d'Artagnan for you, and it was that moment in this episode that made me decide that I liked him after all. I just didn't recall that until I watched that part again, which is why I needed to rewatch before commenting.

I made a mistake - the bantering I attributed to The Exile, was actually from this episode it seems. But oh, I loved it still.

"Nice rump. Must come from good stock."
"Very funny."
"Going for a ride? I'll come along."
"Oh, don't bother."
"We'll stop on the way and pick up a bottle of red wine."
"No, thanks."
"Perhaps you prefer something with a little more fire?"
"Perhaps I prefer you to jump in the river!"
"Skinny-dipping! Marvelous!"
"With a cannon-ball around your neck."

And then the "Jacqueline, I just want us to be friends" bit...beautiful! I know what d'Art/Jacqueline shippers would have seen - jealousy on Jacqueline's part over d'Artagnan and Mireille, but for me, I saw that Jacqueline was worried that d'Artagnan was going to make the younger girl yet another notch on his belt, so to speak, hanging on the end of a long string of women. She knows his reputation as a heartbreaker (he sorta gave her evidence that he is a shameless flirt and ladies' man, with his actions with Charlotte and that seamstress girl whose name I've forgotten), so I feel it logical that she would think that, and worry for Mireille who would be heartbroken... and her actions later to try and let her know that d'Artagnan doesn't really care about her support that.

Her reaction (tone of voice and expression) when d'Artagnan told her he just wanted to be friends was one of relief, and she was really hopeful that d'Art just wanted to be friends and nothing more - to be fair to canon, I'd say because she's not ready to handle anything more right then, probably because she's got enough on her plate right now without having to worry about d'Artagnan and his attempts to romance her off her feet. (And as an S/J shipper, I have to say that maybe she was even thinking that she's just not interested in his constant flirting and everything, because she's not interested in someone flippant like him - she would want someone serious, haha...)

And that beautiful line, to put him in his place properly: "I'd say if you're that lonely - buy a dog." Priceless!

Jacqueline may have meant well, trying to let Mireille down about d'Artagnan's true feelings for her gently, but it backfires, as we see. The whole Mulan feeling of this series was one of the things that drew me to it in the first place, and this one really brings out that feeling, with Mireille transferring her infatuation to "Jacques" instead. Though I really wonder how none of them could see that Jacqueline was actually female... but I guess it's possible. I mean, I've been mistaken for a boy myself, especially when I was younger.

And d'Artagnan - ooh, boy, when Mireille started going after Jacques... I'm sure he was thinking that it was an opportunity for serious payback!!! That will teach Jacqueline to meddle in his affairs... Not to mention, to have missed that fun opportunity to tease the heck out of Jacqueline would be... like me missing a chance to meet the cast of CSI: NY! And Jacqueline knew she was gonna get it, too: "So help me, if you say ONE WORD..."

He said more than just one, in the end, but hey...

And it did all work out, in the end. Ramon was "beginning to wonder about 'him'", but this put his mind at ease. Yeah, "Jacques" is a "man" after all...

Now, moving on to Siroc, who was almost the central focus of this entire episode (I can't say he was the central focus because I feel the episode was well balanced between the characters). Oh, he must have known he was playing with fire, but his desire to explore the world of science just kept tempting him to touch the flames. And I'd love to know exactly what he was thinking when he observed Mireille with her father - "I think he's going to propose, Papa!" The way his eyes narrowed and his expression changed... he must surely have known she was talking about Jacques, his relatively new brother-in-arms. Did he believe it, or did he suspect it was more like the situation with d'Artagnan - one romantic picnic and suddenly it's as if they're engaged? And why that expression on his face? The shipper in me is ready to unleash an entire new line of Siroc/Jacqueline fics, based on that look alone - one can speculate so many different things that he might be thinking, among them some shipperific thoughts that make me squee. But seriously, following the show thus far - oh, I wish I knew what he was thinking.

The shippiness begins when Jacqueline comes to ask Siroc to come with her to church. True, they're just friends (for now, lol). The fact remains that she asked him to go with her - not d'Artagnan, not Ramon... she actively pursues a relationship with Siroc instead of the other two. S/J-wise or canon, this tells me that she would like to be friends with Siroc as well, not an easy task since he's so quiet and serious and deeply involved in his work. Thus, Jacqueline knows that if she is to have him in her life as a friend at all, she has to initiate the relationship - that's how I see this gesture, the start of a friendship/comradeship, because even as deeply in love with the S/J ship as I am, I'm not such a dreamer as to imagine that they could suddenly just fall in love just like that. There had to be a starting friendship there first, and while they probably knew each other from patrols and training together, maybe the occasional meal at the cafe with Ramon and d'Artagnan, this can be seen as Jacqueline's attempt to deepen their friendship. Yeah, not start it - deepen it. And Siroc politely rejects it, which is my explanation for the slightly hurt expression on Jacqueline's face as she leaves - she's disappointed, but kinda expected it from him, and it does mollify her that Siroc at least asks her to pray for her. (I'm speaking non-ship-wise here, seriously.) She's probably also concerned about him, as a friend - the woman in her surely gets worried by the way he's locked himself in his workshop, working hard and probably barely eating or sleeping or coming out to join them.

Shipper-wise, I remember in Rub-a-Dub-Sub, when she told d'Artagnan that she wouldn't want someone flippant like him, but someone serious - the shipper in me speculates that she has to mean Siroc. I don't think she was in denial when she told d'Artagnan what she did, nor was she just trying to get him off her case. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Jacqueline was probably being honest in making that statement, whether d'Artagnan realized it or not, she was letting him know her preference when it came to men and potential... hm, well, our century uses the term boyfriend, but here I would like to say lifemate, or partner in a serious relationship. The fact that she doesn't know the men very well yet when she made that statement, to be fair to canon, suggests that she pre-judged d'Artagnan based on his behavior thus far, and did not realize that he's not as shallow as she believed him to be at the time - he can be her someone serious (though for me, that would be Siroc).

And then, in the scene where Jacqueline follows Siroc and then they are captured by Bernard and his men, I loved how Jacqueline looked to Siroc, and from the camera angle I take that Siroc locked gazes with her, and is worried for her safety as well as Mireille's and her father's. It's interesting, eh, because if we say that up till now they haven't been showing anything more than a cordial acquaintance - then why did Siroc look into Jacqueline's eyes when she was tied to the tree and promise that he would come back for them - all of them? "I'll come back for you - all of you." I'd love to challenge any writer here to explore further into that statement, whether S/J ship-wise or not. The way he looks at her, the intensity of his promise - there is caring there, if not love, and I feel it's more than just a feeling of duty or guilt that he got them into this mess. If that was what Siroc was meant to portray, then Mark Hildreth did a lousy job of it, because what I read in that scene was genuine worry for the life of his fellow musketeer. Why? As an S/J shipper, I say because he cared about her. Following canon and tossing my shippy ways aside, I still say it's because he cares about her deeply - they are friends and comrades-in-arms. I absolutely love that scene, and the fact that Jacqueline worries about him in return. Read that scene as you will, then.

Next scene: D'Artagnan gives Jacqueline one more reason to prefer Siroc over him. Would our resident inventor do what he did, and leave Jacqueline to suffer next to Mireille, just to see what she'd do when Mireille wanted her to kiss her? I think not - though it was funny, and very much d'Artagnan, and I did love that little spark of humor... but oh, at the same time - hello, your friend is tied up and you leave her there for the fun of watching her squirm? Not to mention you have some Siroc-rescuing to do... d'Artagnan!

And the way Jacqueline calls out Siroc's name as the bad guys disperse... yep, she was worried about our inventor, all right. 'Nuff said.

And when Siroc says, "Or worse - I might have killed you", and he glances at his friends and ends with Jacqueline as he says it - yes, yes, nuff said. I'll just be repeating myself, but yes, I do reiterate that this was the shippiest Siroc/Jacqueline episode ever. And that I loved it not just because of the S/J moments, but because of the plot, brilliant fight scenes and the moments with Louis, and between our four friends.

Well, that took me the better part of an afternoon to write, haha. I wrote as I watched, making full use of the 'pause' button every now and again.

And as usual, Ramon's rhapsody at the end was beautiful, though not my favorite of all his work.

[sue]

lol! I'm waiting....

[RK9]

oops? I edited my above message. Sorry, didn't see your post at all. I've been composing the above for the better part of an afternoon.

[sue]

Good lord! This is gonna take me a while!

[sue]

Okay. *disinfects hands and starts dissecting*

OMG! I thought I was the only fool who thought about this this much! I can’t believe you wrote more than I did!

Ok, D’Artagnan was NOT simply turning away in hopes that Mireille (yeah…sp.) might not notice him standing there. He was TRYING to get away BEFORE she noticed him! He SAYS: “I’m outta here!” And, as for speaking, well, you DO know that in television, you can be having a screaming match with someone on one side of the room, but the person on the other side of the room can’t hear you. Why should that be any different from opposite sides of the plaza? Why would Mireille have heard him over the sound of splashing water from a full 20 feet or so away? (and there must have been people having their own conversations in between, as well).

Besides…Mireille isn’t so much besotted with him, as she is in love with the uniform, and the idea of marrying up to a soldier. Remember, she was a farmer’s daughter, and unless she managed to find herself a better husband, she was destined to become a farmer’s wife…drudgery! (Charlotte, on the other hand, was simply in love with the uniform. Think about it...

The thing about D’Artagnan and the duel and Jacqueline’s comment from Exile, is that, in spite of the fact that he will take ANY excuse to fight, and even less to fight Bernard…he is STILL reluctant to fight for Mireille’s honor. One would think that, if Jacqueline’s assessment of his character is accurate, he would jump at the chance, despite the fact that it’s about Mireille. He shouldn’t even care…it’s an excuse to show off in front of the other women, and to beat Bernard’s ego once more. Yeah. I don’t understand why the others had to coax him at all. Unless Jacqueline was wrong about him.

Undoubtedly, he is a gentleman. A man of honor (as mentioned in Secrets) and loyal to a fault to his friends and those he is charged with protecting, which is why it doesn’t take too much to coax him.

I made a mistake - the bantering I attributed to The Exile, was actually from this episode it seems. But oh, I loved it still.

And that beautiful line, to put him in his place properly: "I'd say if you're that lonely - buy a dog." Priceless!

…with Mireille transferring her infatuation to "Jacques" instead. Though I really wonder how none of them could see that Jacqueline was actually female... but I guess it's possible.

I haven’t seen Mulan, yet. Pathetic, I know! I guess this goes down with believing that that person across the room can’t hear you talking about them or having a screaming match. You just have to suspend reality. Even given the little piece of hair on her chin, and the conversation at the beginning of The Girl from Upper Gaborski, I find it difficult to really believe that EVERYONE believed that Jacques was a man! Even taking her for a young man, it’s hard to take! But then, they were much more innocent in those days…accustomed to seeing men play women on stage…the nobility thing mentioned in TGfUG, lack of television to show us all the possibilities of life…I guess…

And d'Artagnan - ooh, boy, when Mireille started going after Jacques... I'm sure he was thinking that it was an opportunity for serious payback!!! That will teach Jacqueline to meddle in his affairs... Not to mention, to have missed that fun opportunity to tease the heck out of Jacqueline would be... like me missing a chance to meet the cast of CSI: NY! And Jacqueline knew she was gonna get it, too: "So help me, if you say ONE WORD..."

He said more than just one, in the end, but hey...

And it did all work out, in the end. Ramon was "beginning to wonder about 'him'", but this put his mind at ease. Yeah, "Jacques" is a "man" after all...

“That’s my boy!”

Yeah, you can totally SEE D’Artagnan planning how he is going to torture Jacques with this one!

I wish I knew what he [Siroc] was thinking.

Yeah. I’ve really noticed that, too. WHAT is that look all about? Does he know that Jacques is a woman? Does he simply thing…wow! First D’Artagnan, then the baker, etc., now Jacques? And btw, where does that scene fall in relation to the one where Mireille brings him those ridiculously huge undershorts as a pretense for discussing Jacques’ love life?

The shippiness begins when Jacqueline comes to ask Siroc to come with her to church.

See, this is where I have a problem. It would be perfectly NORMAL for two (or more) comrades to go to church together. Surely, Ramon and D’Artagnan were invited to go along, but Ramon probably had something else to do, and I can’t imagine D’Artagnan darkening the doors of a church for anything other than someone else’s life cycle rituals (baptisms and weddings) or to interview a priest as a witness to a crime. Just “not his bag,” if you know what I mean…too much guilt over his lifestyle and all.

So, Jacques, who IS very devout, and Siroc, who goes to church just because it’s the thing to do (illegal to not be Catholic in those days, in France, you know…you had to show up in church once in a while, or you would be suspected of heresy…and you know how they treated heretics…well, it would look like torture under Mazarin was a walk in the park!

I think the going to church bit was just an excuse to put Jacques in the lab, and for her character…he was a comrade to enter the building with, sit with during Mass, think high school cafeteria, okay? Plus, as you say, he needs to be dragged out of that lab once in a while and breathe some fresh air…too many chemical fumes, etc. LOL!

I don’t notice her hurt expression as she leaves, nor a change after he asks her to say a prayer for him.

Shipper-wise, I remember in Rub-a-Dub-Sub, when she told d'Artagnan that she wouldn't want someone flippant like him, but someone serious - the shipper in me speculates that she has to mean Siroc.

This has been brought up before. I repeat. She THINKS she wants someone serious, but we are so often blind to what we really NEED, and she needs someone to lighten her up a little. Siroc wouldn’t do that. Plus, as I said before, he doesn’t seem to need a woman at all. He isn’t at that place in his life, yet…he’s sort of a sexual until the last episode. I see him settling down someday with a woman who is into science…someone who works as a nurse or scientific assistant for him, or something like that.

..her preference when it came to men and potential... hm, well, our century uses the term boyfriend, but here I would like to say lifemate, or partner in a serious relationship.

Suitor. The word you are looking for, here, is Suitor.

she pre-judged d'Artagnan based on his behavior thus far, and did not realize that he's not as shallow as she believed him to be at the time

Well, yeah. For sure. That’s pretty much a given, and how it was planned.

And then, in the scene where Jacqueline follows Siroc and then they are captured by Bernard and his men, I loved how Jacqueline looked to Siroc, and from the camera angle I take that Siroc locked gazes with her, and is worried for her safety as well as Mireille's and her father's. It's interesting, eh, because if we say that up till now they haven't been showing anything more than a cordial acquaintance - then why did Siroc look into Jacqueline's eyes when she was tied to the tree and promise that he would come back for them - all of them? "I'll come back for you - all of you."

I'd love to challenge any writer here to explore further into that statement, whether S/J ship-wise or not. The way he looks at her, the intensity of his promise - there is caring there, if not love, and I feel it's more than just a feeling of duty or guilt that he got them into this mess. If that was what Siroc was meant to portray, then Mark Hildreth did a lousy job of it, because what I read in that scene was genuine worry for the life of his fellow musketeer. Why? As an S/J shipper, I say because he cared about her. Following canon and tossing my shippy ways aside, I still say it's because he cares about her deeply - they are friends and comrades-in-arms. I absolutely love that scene, and the fact that Jacqueline worries about him in return. Read that scene as you will, then.

Okay…just not seeing what you are…he is concerned for his comrade, for the innocents who have gotten caught up in his sinfulness (which is surely how he sees his inability to keep his hands out of the flame, as you put it), his curiosity, his worship of Da Vinci. This is his fault, and he knows it, and as a man of honor, he vows to fix what he has messed up. Nothing there that is lustful, or more serious than just a couple of comrades…he doesn’t look intently into her eyes. He is looking intent, because he is already trying to concentrate on a way to get them all out of this mess. Genuine worry? Yeah, we all know what the Dark Knights are capable of. He feels like he is responsible…he knows that his friends are in for a really nasty torture session, possibly ending with death, and it’s all his fault…not to mention what he has built for the Dark Knights to use against others with nothing similar to fight back!

Next scene: D'Artagnan gives Jacqueline one more reason to prefer Siroc over him. Would our resident inventor do what he did, and leave Jacqueline to suffer next to Mireille, just to see what she'd do when Mireille wanted her to kiss her? I think not - though it was funny, and very much d'Artagnan, and I did love that little spark of humor... but oh, at the same time - hello, your friend is tied up and you leave her there for the fun of watching her squirm? Not to mention you have some Siroc-rescuing to do... d'Artagnan!

Oh, he only watched for a moment, and then when it got dicey, he came to their rescue!

And the way Jacqueline calls out Siroc's name as the bad guys disperse... yep, she was worried about our inventor, all right. 'Nuff said.

Worried, yes, about her comrade.

And when Siroc says, "Or worse - I might have killed you", and he glances at his friends and ends with Jacqueline as he says it - yes, yes, nuff said. I'll just be repeating myself, but yes, I do reiterate that this was the shippiest Siroc/Jacqueline episode ever.

You. Plural. ‘Nuff said.

And that I loved it not just because of the S/J moments, but because of the plot, brilliant fight scenes and the moments with Louis, and between our four friends.

Well, that took me the better part of an afternoon to write, haha. I wrote as I watched, making full use of the 'pause' button every now and again.

The best way to get everything!

And as usual, Ramon's rhapsody at the end was beautiful, though not my favorite of all his work.

Better than many!

(Red are my responses to previous post...it was too difficult to get this right by just using the site and the quote mode...I went into word and did it there.)

[RK9]

*cracks knuckles and sits down again* - LOL.

OMG! I thought I was the only fool who thought about this this much! I can’t believe you wrote more than I did!

Well... I guess if I hadn't kept pausing my youtube tab and writing after every few scenes, I'd have written less - who can remember all that? As it was I left out a lot, because I didn't think it prudent to comment on EVERYTHING. And because I kept switching windows, I know I messed a lot of words up and didn't describe everything as I wanted to... my word choices are sooo sucky in that post.

Ok, D’Artagnan was NOT simply turning away in hopes that Mireille (yeah…sp.) might not notice him standing there. He was TRYING to get away BEFORE she noticed him! He SAYS: “I’m outta here!” And, as for speaking, well, you DO know that in television, you can be having a screaming match with someone on one side of the room, but the person on the other side of the room can’t hear you. Why should that be any different from opposite sides of the plaza? Why would Mireille have heard him over the sound of splashing water from a full 20 feet or so away? (and there must have been people having their own conversations in between, as well).

Yeah, but that's the thing. In the scene, Mireille isn't 20 feet away - and it doesn't look like she is. She's barely a few feet away from him, so d'Art should have adjusted accordingly - I suppose Tobias Mehler followed the script, or something, or maybe no one noticed that he was waayy too close for that to be... realistic? I dunno, but yeah, I suppose I could chalk it down to that whole "TV physics" thing...

Besides…Mireille isn’t so much besotted with him, as she is in love with the uniform, and the idea of marrying up to a soldier. Remember, she was a farmer’s daughter, and unless she managed to find herself a better husband, she was destined to become a farmer’s wife…drudgery! (Charlotte, on the other hand, was simply in love with the uniform. Think about it...

Oh, no, besotted is the right word here. She's the daughter of the vegetable seller, from her father's own words we know that she falls easily and frequently for anyone in pants. And you're missing my point - the point is not what those women did to d'Artagnan, but the fact that our resident legend's son and ladies' man was the one to chat them up. In a milder, more chivalrous way, d'Artagnan has a healthy respect and longing for anything in a skirt - in that way, his character is like that of Buck Wilmington, of the Magnificent 7 tv show... I see a lot of similarities between them, and differences too - but they both love the ladies, and have a reputation for winning and breaking many hearts. That was the point I was making about d'Art's character, if memory serves me right, thus Jacqueline's caution about him and Mireille.

The thing about D’Artagnan and the duel and Jacqueline’s comment from Exile, is that, in spite of the fact that he will take ANY excuse to fight, and even less to fight Bernard…he is STILL reluctant to fight for Mireille’s honor. One would think that, if Jacqueline’s assessment of his character is accurate, he would jump at the chance, despite the fact that it’s about Mireille. He shouldn’t even care…it’s an excuse to show off in front of the other women, and to beat Bernard’s ego once more. Yeah. I don’t understand why the others had to coax him at all. Unless Jacqueline was wrong about him.

I don't think even Jacqueline was saying that he'll take any excuse to fight - I think you misunderstood what she was referring to there. Neither she nor I ever said that d'Artagnan's a scrapper who'll take any excuse to fight people, we said that he does things without thinking sometimes, or does things so infinitely "male" that it drives us females crazy because we don't get why he does things like that. D'Artagnan was fighting the guard out of pride, and he refused to let Jacqueline help at all, saying he could handle it, and she wasn't to interfere - that was what drove Jacqueline crazy, but she never said he took any excuse to get into a good brawl. Though from the pilot, one might think so, that wasn't what she said.

D'Artagnan was just reluctant to encourage Mireille. The fighting was a necessity, his friends and his own honor as a gentleman expected that he would have to challenge Bernard for Mireille's honor. Bernard was being a cad, and Mireille, no matter how much he might not like her over-affection for him, was a lady, and as such he had to defend her. But in doing so, he only got Mireille more excited about their relationship, even if it was one-sided - that was what he was reluctant to do, those were the embers he didn't want to poke into flames again.

Yeah. I’ve really noticed that, too. WHAT is that look all about? Does he know that Jacques is a woman? Does he simply thing…wow! First D’Artagnan, then the baker, etc., now Jacques? And btw, where does that scene fall in relation to the one where Mireille brings him those ridiculously huge undershorts as a pretense for discussing Jacques’ love life?

It wasn't an extra scene, was it? I don't think it was... so we were meant to have seen it. Sigh. Is it too late to ask Mark Hildreth what that scene was all about?

See, this is where I have a problem. It would be perfectly NORMAL for two (or more) comrades to go to church together. Surely, Ramon and D’Artagnan were invited to go along, but Ramon probably had something else to do, and I can’t imagine D’Artagnan darkening the doors of a church for anything other than someone else’s life cycle rituals (baptisms and weddings) or to interview a priest as a witness to a crime. Just “not his bag,” if you know what I mean…too much guilt over his lifestyle and all.

So, Jacques, who IS very devout, and Siroc, who goes to church just because it’s the thing to do (illegal to not be Catholic in those days, in France, you know…you had to show up in church once in a while, or you would be suspected of heresy…and you know how they treated heretics…well, it would look like torture under Mazarin was a walk in the park!

I think the going to church bit was just an excuse to put Jacques in the lab, and for her character…he was a comrade to enter the building with, sit with during Mass, think high school cafeteria, okay? Plus, as you say, he needs to be dragged out of that lab once in a while and breathe some fresh air…too many chemical fumes, etc. LOL!

I don’t notice her hurt expression as she leaves, nor a change after he asks her to say a prayer for him.

Yeah, that's why I later said I felt this was them starting a friendship. And pertaining to the previous scene, I'd say that she wouldn't have asked Ramon or d'Art - bet they were recovering from that wild night with the triplets, haha. But anyway, for me the important thing is that she didn't ask any of the other musketeers, she asked Siroc... and that makes me feel all "squee-ey" inside. And to each their own - but I did mention, even tossing my shippiness aside, I saw that she was a bit miffed that Siroc rejected her invite to accompany her to church. I mean, even when I'm trying to make new friends, and they just reject me like that... it makes me slightly mad, or maybe hurt. Here I am trying to make friends and you refuse? However politely you do it, it hurts, cause it's still rejection, and even if maybe I was expecting you to say no, it's still disappointing.

This has been brought up before. I repeat. She THINKS she wants someone serious, but we are so often blind to what we really NEED, and she needs someone to lighten her up a little. Siroc wouldn’t do that. Plus, as I said before, he doesn’t seem to need a woman at all. He isn’t at that place in his life, yet…he’s sort of a sexual until the last episode. I see him settling down someday with a woman who is into science…someone who works as a nurse or scientific assistant for him, or something like that.

Well, I'll give Jacqueline a little more credit than that and say that she DOES know what she wants - heck, even I know what I want in a future boyfriend, and what I like when it comes to men. It's not about what she needs, it's about her own tastes in men - of course we can be blind to what we need, but here she is telling d'Artagnan what she prefers in men - and come to think of it, oftentimes what we want coincides with what we need. You say that she needs someone to lighten her up - that's your opinion, but how does anyone but God know what other people need. That's what you want for her to need, but I believe that Jacqueline knows exactly what she wants and needs in life - she's mature enough to have figured it out by now. And I think that Siroc is a good match for her - he's not like d'Artagnan, and he's noble too. As for him not showing interest in women until the final episode - that doesn't mean he isn't interested in them. D'Art and Ramon show their interest in women because that's their approach when it comes to romance - they actively pursue the women they are interested in. I feel Siroc is more reserved when it comes to romance, he doesn't chase anything in a skirt like d'Art and he doesn't try wooing women with passionate poetry like Ramon - he's behind the scenes, keeping an eye on the women he does want, and when the time is right, he makes his move. It doesn't mean he isn't interested at all - I don't show interest in boys right now either, it doesn't mean I'm not interested, because I am! It's just that I'm a shy person, and I'm not like my friends who have had strings of boyfriends and everything. Siroc might not be shy, but I doubt he's not interested - I'm not saying Jacqueline and other women are the center of his world, because science and his work hold that position in his life. Still, I doubt just because he shows no interest, that he isn't interested at all. As for who he settles down with - I don't see why it COULDN'T be Jacqueline. Some pairs are unusual, and I don't think we can stereotype people like that - scientists don't necessarily have to end up with someone who shares their passion for science, just someone who has a passion for them, the person they are, and if their passion for science is a part of who they are, then they need to love them for it.

Suitor. The word you are looking for, here, is Suitor.

No, not suitor either. It has connotations that I don't think fit the point I was trying to make. Oh, well.

Okay…just not seeing what you are…he is concerned for his comrade, for the innocents who have gotten caught up in his sinfulness (which is surely how he sees his inability to keep his hands out of the flame, as you put it), his curiosity, his worship of Da Vinci. This is his fault, and he knows it, and as a man of honor, he vows to fix what he has messed up. Nothing there that is lustful, or more serious than just a couple of comrades…he doesn’t look intently into her eyes. He is looking intent, because he is already trying to concentrate on a way to get them all out of this mess. Genuine worry? Yeah, we all know what the Dark Knights are capable of. He feels like he is responsible…he knows that his friends are in for a really nasty torture session, possibly ending with death, and it’s all his fault…not to mention what he has built for the Dark Knights to use against others with nothing similar to fight back!

I didn't say that he was looking lustfully at her! No way! I meant that he cared deeply for her, and it wasn't just guilt that was motivating him to say that quite so intently: "I'll come back for you. ALL of you." And yes, he is looking in Jacqueline's direction when he said it. That isn't what I was saying at all - of course he would be looking at her like: "You're in terrible danger because of me, and right now all I wanna do is jump into your pants" - of course not! I believe that their relationship is more than just lust - I'd be making a really dumb argument for the S/J ship if I implied that all they like about each other is the sexual attraction! Caring, not lust! And for the reasons he was looking at her, we'll just agree to disagree.

Oh, he only watched for a moment, and then when it got dicey, he came to their rescue!

The point here being that he had to watch in the first place, instead of rescuing them right away and teasing the heck out of her later - but that goes under YB humor, and it is a TV show so we can guess that even though she's in trouble and he stops to have fun at her expense, we still know it'll all be all right in the end.

Worried, yes, about her comrade.
You. Plural. ‘Nuff said.

Again, we'll agree to disagree. For me, it's the actions I'm interested in, not his words, since we all know what speaks louder.

Better than many!

For me, I preferred his rhapsody in "The Chameleon" and in "The Exile". This wasn't bad, but not his best.

{Red are your responses, and white are mine. }